How To Make A Natural Spring Flow Better

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#337 12/03/03 07:twenty PM
OP Member Joined: November 2003 Posts: 65	Does anybody know if its possible to increase the flow of a gratuitous flowing natural spring by digging or some other method? the spring comes upwardly from deep nether ground through a shale stratum. the water is a constant 45 degrees year round and the flow remains at a constant 12 gal per min.

#339 12/03/03 xi:01 PM
Joined: November 2003 Posts: 65 Fellow member
OP Member Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 65	hey Dave, yep it is alot ,however not enough for trout. I mean aye a few would be ok i guess simply not in any numbers. Information technology would exist the greatest thing if there was a way to increase the flow of this spring without ruining it.You would recollect if the water is flowing up through the basis from that deep .......well its mutual sense at that place must be a vast supply of information technology somewhere down at that place. Maybe there is a fashion to channel it through obstructions that slow it down . I dont know.....just wondering if it was feasable

#340 12/03/03 xi:01 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 65 Member
OP Member Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 65	hey Dave, aye it is alot ,however not enough for trout. I mean aye a few would be ok i guess but not in any numbers. It would exist the greatest thing if in that location was a way to increment the menstruation of this spring without ruining it.You would retrieve if the h2o is flowing up through the ground from that deep .......well its common sense at that place must exist a vast supply of it somewhere downwardly there. Maybe in that location is a mode to channel it through obstructions that slow it down . I dont know.....just wondering if it was feasable

#342 12/04/03 06:30 AM
Joined: Apr 2002 Posts: 1,892 Lunker
Lunker Joined: Apr 2002 Posts: 1,892	I honey trout but am glad I don't accept to worry about them. My response is really over business organization most a great h2o source. I do know one guy who wrecked his spring while trying to meliorate it. Heck, my well is measured in gallons per hour and non gallons per minute. It took three holes to finally hit h2o. I get about 12 gallons per hr and have a 2500 gallon holding tank. I salivate over some of the well stories I meet here.

#343 12/04/03 10:53 AM
Joined: Aug 2002 Posts: twenty,043 Likes: 1 Hall of Fame Lunker
Hall of Fame Lunker Joined: Aug 2002 Posts: xx,043 Likes: 1	Aye, you may be able to increase the catamenia rate but it all depends on a lot of factors. You may also be able to drill in the vincinity and get a much improve flow since y'all patently have a confined layer putting pressure on your aquifer. Your best bet is to consult with a well driller in your area that knows his stuff and not just what then and so says on hither. No offense to anyone on here but there are a lot of misconceptions on springs, artesian wells, flowing artesian wells, recharge etc. A practiced number of wives tale mixed in. At that place are maps out in that location showing where confined layers and potential flowing artesian wells are likewise. And many times yous can even consult with a land geologist at no charge. I found one on the Cyberspace for my surface area and he was more than happy to respond questions. I have a friend that raises trout similar I do, and he has put in two wells through a bars layer of limestone and gets more than than he needs. Each well puts out 500 gallons a infinitesimal. Interesting thing is if he moved over merely a few feet he would get much less. If pigs could wing bacon would exist harder to come by and at that place would be a lot of damaged trees.

#344 12/04/03 03:xvi PM
Joined: November 2003 Posts: 65 Member
OP Fellow member Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 65	wow! 500 gal a min thats actually something!I have a friend in New Hampshire he is a dairy farmer , he also has a rather special ability to discover water.he has had this ability for as long equally he can call up. Its actually quite fascinating .He is a dowser. With an apple stick shaped like a "y"he can observe water deep nether ground. He has told me stories nearly information technology, and he is not one to fabricate. I had heard nearly this ability before... i spent 7 years in the Adirondacks and i knew 1 there besides. He was 90 years erstwhile at the time ,but he still did information technology back then. He used a willow co-operative. Any way, this friend of mine in NH has told me more then once hed come to my proprty and spend some time searching. Im intriuged by the idea of it, withal id hate for him to find a spot , then spend time and money to try to get at the h2o and come empty. I think he would experience bad if that happened. what do y'all guys think of this "dowsing" have you lot always heard of it?

#346 12/04/03 05:27 PM
Joined: Apr 2003 Posts: 1,902 Lunker
Lunker Joined: Apr 2003 Posts: 1,902	mtn, There are always the naysayers & doubters .. doesn't matter. My gramps was a dowser. He always used a peach tree co-operative merely said pretty much any fruit tree worked. He found water on the last property he bought, went downward 27' got 23' of water. He taught me how & I found water on my place only when the well drillers came they moved 50' closer to my house saying they would save me some pipe. Went downwards 500' but got 1 gpm. Cost me alot of pipe! Now .. they got paid by the foot. Did they know there was no water where they drilled? Dunno. No one tin tell y'all for sure if opening the spring will work or not. It's your call. Water takes the path of to the lowest degree resistance. Heavy eqp. may motility the stone that'due south blocking it's path dorsum under ground or move the stone that's belongings it dorsum. If you consult well drillers they volition desire to drill .. that's how they brand money. If you drill try to stay away from your spring. Ever drill at the head of a hollow if possible, that's where you lot're most likely to find the most h2o. Just my opinion. Ric Swimming Dominate Subscriber & Books Owner If you can read this ... thank a teacher. Since it's in english ... thank our military! Ric

#347 12/04/03 09:xxx PM
Joined: Apr 2002 Posts: 1,892 Lunker
Lunker Joined: Apr 2002 Posts: 1,892	Ric; After my starting time two dry out holes, I got a dowser. Had to hunt for 1 only I actually watched a willow fork break in his hands while pulling down. Now, I tried it only got nothing. When I put my hands on the forest, it didn't work. He said I had a strong flow. Alas, the strong flow turned into a one.5 pint per minute well. Now don't get me wrong. I saw him straining and I don't see anyway he could have been faking. And also, peradventure that little distill is a lot on my land. Nosotros put a 2,500 gallon holding tank and I don't worry near running out of water (We time my wifes showers by the calendar instead of a clock) just I'g non going to fill whatsoever ponds. Cecil, differences of opinion is why nosotros have horse races. If I were going to mess with a perfectly expert leap, I would ask for some assurances in the manner of greenbacks bonds from the driller. I wouldn't concord my jiff waiting for him to put his money where his oral fissure is.

#348 12/04/03 11:thirteen PM
Joined: Aug 2002 Posts: 20,043 Likes: i Hall of Fame Lunker
Hall of Fame Lunker Joined: Aug 2002 Posts: 20,043 Likes: i	Really I believe in science and consulting with an expert, but the friend with the 500 gpm did use a douser and it worked out for him. He knew the property he had purchased has potential for artesian flowing wells just the get-go two wells came up dry. Although he was sceptical he decided he didn't have annihilation to lose and the two spots the douser pointed out worked. Doesn't mean there isn't any science to it. As far as opinions you know what they say virtually them. I'd rather get someone who has expertise in the area. Could be alot cheaper. If pigs could fly salary would be harder to come past and there would be a lot of damaged trees.

#349 12/05/03 08:00 AM
Joined: October 2002 Posts: 171 Member
Fellow member Joined: Oct 2002 Posts: 171	My no blood brother good in law is a surveyor and they unremarkably use dousing for finding everthing from electric lines to unmarked graves. All they use is some Fifty shaped pieces of wire and hold the brusque ends close to torso at about chest level or a little lower. I accept tried it several times to find our septic or in the by water and gas lines, works every fourth dimension, the wires will cross and 10 marks the spot. This being said, i don't know whether I would utilise this solely for important or unsafe digging. Robert B

#352 12/05/03 03:38 PM
Joined: Aug 2002 Posts: 20,043 Likes: ane Hall of Fame Lunker
Hall of Fame Lunker Joined: Aug 2002 Posts: 20,043 Likes: 1	The trout farm is located in northern Ohio non too far due south of Lake Erie. Yes, he does no pumping whatsoever which is what a free flowing artesian well is. An artesian well has some pressure but a gratuitous flowing artesian well has enough pressure from a confined layer that the water shoots out of the well on its own. I would kill for this on my property as I pay about $100.00 utility costs to run my well at 38 gpm 24/7 from tardily May to tardily September. Fortunately I sell my trout to more than brand up for the cost. see http://www.ligel.com/~jjbaird/bairdfish2.htm He does take some hydrogen sulfide (produces a gasy smell when information technology offset comes out of the water and can be toxic to fish), merely he takes care of that by dropping it through columns filled with plastic media which besides aerates the water. The bad gases become blow off which include nitrogen gas and the water then runs nether ground to his raceway building which is also below ground level. All the water flow is by gravity and there is and so much some of it some of information technology has to exist diverted into a local stream. Of grade once the h2o runs through the raceways it ends up in the stream also. If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would exist a lot of damaged trees.

#354 12/05/03 03:55 PM
Joined: Jul 2002 Posts: 183 Fellow member
Member Joined: Jul 2002 Posts: 183	Lobster: A bigger hole in the shale will probably produce more menses. Cecil'south communication regarding professional person aid is a good one. You lot could also run the chance of degrading water quality. The general equation governing menses is as follows. Q=kia Q = discharge (flow) k = hydraulic conductivity (permeability) i = slope (difference in hydraulic head) a = cross sectional area (hole in the shale) Since "i" and "k" are concrete backdrop that you cannot change, that leaves "a". There are too many variables without knowing the hydrogeology of your expanse to comment much further, but a large bore well may produce more water. If y'all want to pump water, that is a dissimilar story.

#355 12/05/03 05:fourteen PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 65 Member
OP Member Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 65	My spring is a gratuitous flowing artesian well bringing up water from some kind of confined aquifer deep undercover. its located on rather steep terrain. like i said before it seems to exist comming upwards through some kind of shale layer(the shale after some digging shows up as pieces maybe one to 2 inches in length).Nevertheless right were the principal vein is, there seems to be some kind of small irregular somewhat circular withal rough, soft stones. they seem to me to be sand stone of some kind .A geologist would probably have a field day at the site. The funny part about it is ,there are 4 significant springs in the same expanse perhaps 200 anxiety apart.........and they are all located at nigh the exact elavation coming out of the same slope, interesting... All 4 springs run year round and never dry upwardly, fifty-fifty during years of farthermost drought. They all produce well-nigh the identical amount ofwater around 12 gal per min. The water is crystal clear and very cold. The water temp remains abiding year round...45 degrees. Now im non a dowser and dont claim to exist one ( its interesting that dowsing seems to run in families, sometimes skipping a generation)...anyway im not a dowser (tried it a few times couldnt get the darn stick to motility) however despite my inadequacy,i take a stange feeling that there is a huge reservoir of crystal clear cool clean water lying somewhere under basis trying to go out beneath those 4 piffling springs. I take always been an optimist....

#357 12/05/03 06:19 PM
Joined: Aug 2002 Posts: xx,043 Likes: i Hall of Fame Lunker
Hall of Fame Lunker Joined: Aug 2002 Posts: xx,043 Likes: 1	Try my second postal service. As I indicated I screwed upwardly the first accost with a typo. My website is as well listed under my contour. Unfortunately I have not yet updated my website for this year although I am shipping out an average of 6 fish a calendar week, but will begin this weekend with pics of trout upwards to almost 12 lbs. I posted this earlier in one of your series of posts but here goes again: My trout pond that is almost 88 by 59 ft., kidney shaped and nine feet deep the center. It drops off very steeply to go on potential weeds and summer temps down. Consequently surface expanse is rather low for the depth which keeps temps downward. I add together 38 gpms of aerated well water (drop by gravity through four five gallon buckets filled with plastic media) to the pond from late May to the end of September and aerate in the center with a 1/10 hp compresser and ii airstones on the bottom mounted on a tire. I harvested merely over 500 lbs of trout this fall with 4 brooks that would have cleaved our state record (biggest was 5 lbs two oz and only but under 3 years old). Browns went up to almost 12 lbs with 4 over ten lbs., several over 8 lbs. and about of the browns over vi lbs. (The browns over 8 lbs were 4 or v year olds that were not captured the previous year). I purchase 1 to 2 lbs male only browns and rainbows every fall and feed them for nigh 11 months which I harvest primarily by hook and line. I now have 150 male Lake Nipigon strain brooks in the pond with no browns or rainbos (tuckered and refilled the pond this fall) and volition add browns and rainbows side by side fall. Hope they work out as they are a wild strain and very spooky dissimilar the domestic strain I got from Virginia last fourth dimension. They are also quite modest at this fourth dimension at only four/lb but are 2 yr olds. My other brooks average 2 1/2 lbs. at ii years. Sure promise they catch upward! If pigs could wing bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.

#358 12/05/03 06:42 PM
Joined: November 2003 Posts: 65 Member
OP Member Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 65	Sorry tour that Cecil, remember seein the site now ..your fish pics were impressive! my gauge is your growing fish to obtain size non volume. Your growing organisation seems ingenious and well thought out! If i cant get my springs to produce any better maybe ill effort something similar your method. For now however, those springs are 1 of my main concerns.

#359 12/06/03 07:55 AM
Joined: Jul 2002 Posts: 183 Member
Fellow member Joined: Jul 2002 Posts: 183	Lobster: Sounds like the springs are formed from overpressured groundwater escaping through relatively higher permeability zones acquired by a sandy zone in the shale (path of least resistance). Remember the aquifer is producing the sum flow of springs (was it 36 gpm) and is probably capable of much more. The fact that the springs all produce 12 gpm is more likely due to the relatively uniform hydraulic properties of the sandy zone in the shale, which is leaking water to the surface rather than the actual confined aquifer. The maximum flow possible is controlled by the cross exclusive area of the confined aquifer and the head created past the elevation difference between the upland area and your location. If the aquifer is not the limiting factor, your actual flow is dependent on the diameter of the well and it's placement. The aid of a professional is advisable for the all-time results and to make certain that y'all practise not adversely affect other wells or ponds in your expanse. If I was working on your project, the first thing I would do is obtain water well records from the health section, which would probably give you a adept idea of the thickness of the confining unit of measurement, the confined aquifer, and the difference in hydraulic caput between the upland source expanse and your location. Get records from all these locations with several from your surrounding area. Best of all, the records will just cost you a few hours of your time and some copying charges. Y'all might be able to get significant flow with the correct well installed correctly. Sounds like y'all take a pretty skilful handle on it, hope that helps.

#361 12/06/03 08:48 AM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 65 Member
OP Member Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 65	Thanks Steve, sounds like sound advice, 1 thing i neglected to say in my mail is the upland area is aprox 500 ft higher then the location of the springs. with that said , the head pressure would be more than then sufficiant. 500ft is a minimum the gradient continues upward afterwards that. id have to become a detailed elevation map to get the exact bespeak of highest elevation. I practise know that aprox 500 feet up, there are rather large areas of undeveloped level ground (100 or so acres perchance more). An interesting dilema, if and when i drill, exercise i become straight down, angle in, or sideways into the slope? The slope is probably effectually a vii/12 pitch.

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